Although I haven't posted for a while, I regularly read all the posts but I now find myself unable to keep quiet any longer. This is the ICCF forum which was created to increase the profile of ICCF and allow discussion on ICCF matters. It was not created to allow recommendations that people play their chess everywhere else except ICCF! Whats the point of that...?

A new player logged on recently & was immediately recommended a whole host of sites to play his chess rather than ICCF. Excuse me but what are you doing on the ICCF forum promoting other websites? No doubt this player has now gone elsewhere & the ICCF has lot another "customer". Well done!

People should have a bit more responsibility when they post & try to promote ICCF wherever possible. If you don't believe in ICCF, then stop posting here & post somewhere else.

Finally, I am a TD for new Open Class sections and, from what I can see, many of the players do not use computers.

You know, this is a bone that I routinely gripe about to anyone that will listen. Most Chess organizations seem to be interested in promoting themselves. Only logical, I guess... but for guys like me, it is annoying. I would much prefer to join an organization that was interested in promoting the fun of its members. Honestly, for a variety of reasons, I don't see many organizations like that. You want to promote the ICCF, the ICCF seems to be mostly preoccupied with the WC cycle... very much above the grasp of most ordinary players. And, of course, FIDE and the local federations seem similarly focused. Does anyone really seriously wonder why those organizations are in financial trouble?

At least the ICCF provides a website where Chess can be played. This seems beyond my local Chess federation, the USCF. And yet, the cost of playing on the ICCF is not insignificant... as the trournaments are charged per tournament, whereas other sites are either free or have nominal annual fees (less than $100 per year), i.e. SchemingMind, Lechenicher SchachServer and ChesWorld -- to name just a few of the best sites apart from the ICCF.

Who would it serve to not mention the competition? ICCF? I don't think so. These sites often funnel members into the ICCF once they have progressed to a more serious stage of the game. And who are we kidding? Goggle is within everyone's grasp -- it doesn['t take much to find Chess sites online. Better to steer new players to fertile ground for possible advancement to the BIGS, here on ICCF.

__________________
Ed Meiners

The question is if the Forum is not only an added service to all players but also a promotional tool for new players.
I can't find a main thread titled "New players welcome" anywhere and wonder why someone expects self-promotion here.
This Forum is not built to welcome new players nor provides any organized guidance to newcomers.

I see the forum as a forum for discussion about ICCF related things(and ICCF alternatives are included) and not as a forum to support ICCF.

The name of the forum is ICCF forum and not ICCF supporting forum so people do not know that only supporters of the ICCF should participate.

If you do not like it then I suggest that you change the name of the forum to ICCF supporting forum.

Uri

Hi Gino,

I totally agree! New players cannot easily see where to go or what to do, without having to navigate through many pages on the main ICCF site and it is still not that clear. I had an example of this a few weeks ago where the ICCF services director sent a new player to me as national delegate. This potential new player wanted to just 'click a button' to find out all the info on one page, including how to join, what to play in, how much it would cost and what format to play in. He sent me an email asking for this 'button'

Surely we need to have a link for this on the forum to a newly designed page outlining all this on the main ICCF website or 'customers' will just go or be directed elsewhere, which is what Neil is afraid of in the start of this thread.

All the best
Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I designed and distributed a pamphlet "Welcome to ICCF" back in the days when I was more involved in ICCF organization.
I think you may find it attached to one of my earlier postings last year.
The idea of creating a webpage with all this information is good.
I disagree that ICCF has a "main website".
ICCF has many webpages distributed in two hosting providers.
If only the current ICCF leadership would understand that the sites need merge, many problems would be immediately solved.

Best wishes,

Gino

Hi Uri,

Sorry to say but I disagree with your views. Any organization uses its forum to promote its own business/ product and not the competitors' one! Nobody says you can't have views about other chess organizations and their products (such servers), but still this is basic business or "Business 101" as they say

Our focus should still be to atract more players into ICCF by any means. In what way does it help ICCF to talk at length about other servers and services, or even promote them as an alternative?

Supporting ICCF does not eliminate discussions and opinions about other options, nor should stop newcomers from posting here. It would be only normal to have ICCF promoted as the first option since it is an ICCF forum afterall!

Eugen

Hi Eugen,

I agree, but to which extent depends upon the distinction between the various chess organizations. If ICCF would be the same as any other organization then of course we should try to 'catch' every visitor to the forum. If on the other hand I would be selling fruit and vegetables would I direct a customer asking for a loaf of bread across the street to the bakery or should I tell him that a banana is more nutricious ?

Fortunately in the correspondence chess world the distinction is not as clear cut as the above example, so there will always be some room to convince players to play within ICCF. It is obvious however that with every new player you also get another set of preferences and we need to be aware of that. Hypothetically ICCF could welcome thousands of casual players that are not in it for the glory. It's not a bad thing perse but ICCF could get a hard time keeping its aura of top level cc organization. With another demography comes a shift in balance and ultimately a new policy.

Ron

Well, it all depends on what the ICCF is all about. If you want to attract new players, I have several suggestions:

1. Offer more events that the lower rated players might be interested in - for example, more team events, or a pyramid game, or variants, like 960 or others that seem popular at the club level - bughouse seems to be very popular in my area among juvenile players.

2. Promote the ICCF. And by that, I DO NOT mean this forum. How about an easy to follow sign-up procedure that doesn't involve going to a national federation -- for the longest time, I thought I could not play in the ICCF, because I thought I had to be entered by my local federation. This area could really be streamlined A LOT. And ICCF is not the only chess organization that suffers from this problem either. We chessplayers like to over-complicate everything!

3. How about an ad - there used to be ads placed by the ICCF to attract players. They required mailing some sort of form/letter to a delegate. How about an ad that directs players to a website with a 5 minute sign-up procedure?? It isn't "rocket science".

I was under the impression that the ICCF didn't care to attract players.

__________________
Ed Meiners

Hi Ed,

ICCF has always been interested in atracting new blood into the organization. Lauching our own dedicated server was a huge step ahead and allowed ICCF to offer more tournaments for newcomers such as:
Webchess Open Tournament
Rapid Tournaments
Money Prize Tournaments
Also it improved existing ones such as:
ICCF Champions League (ICCF-CL)
Promotion Tournaments
Norm Tournaments
etc.

Team tournaments
Before there was only the Olympiad, continental team championships and friendly team matches where selections limited the number of participants. Now you have added the ICCF-CL and all sort of regional team tournaments. I am not sure what is missing here to atract more players to such tournaments!...

Ches variants
This is already in the works as much as I know.

ICCF and National Federations (NFs)
ICCF consists of NFs, so I am not sure much can be done unless the statutes change. This would be a major development, something I would not expect to be resolved in a few months.

Adds promoting ICCF
This has been done in the past and it still is being done today. It is a combination of efforts by ICCF and NFs. Based on my experience the main stumbling block in atracting players from various servers here is the cost of playing in ICCF. This does not mean I do not agree with the costs; it only means I am aware it exists and will continue to do so as long as every Tom, Dick or Harry can setup a server and atract players to play there.

Hope things are a bit clearer now

Cheers,
Eugen